The main thing i've got out of this so far is that no-one has any sort of explaination for how it works. I've heard a few strong arguements against and thank you for those but it would be nice to get strong logical 'pro' arguments as well. I won't understand much in depth about quantum maths or biology but there must a simple ish basic explaination of how homeopathy works. For example what you'd learn on the first day of a homeopathic course. wow. just got to wade in here.
To cybercommie,
not only does the water have a memory it must also be intelligent enough to ignore everything else it's ever come into contact with. otherwise if a man swims naked in a pool with sweaty balls then the sweaty ball juice gets diluted you'd have the most potent concentration of sweaty ballness known to man.
Are people really that dumb to believe that you can affect water by being nice to it.
that experiment was obviously a fraud or at best a freak result. more likely they froze the water first then later set the criteria for what was a nice shape and an evil shape. Are jagged lines beautiful and free or roguish and troublesome.
Dear Questioner. Ask a homeopath if the solutions are just water and if so how can that work and see if they can give you a straight answer.they can't. there isn't one. I'd ask now but I've wound up the alt-med geeks on here too much and they won't speak to me.
TO FABLE:
come on then. in a paragraph give me something.. anything that might be plausable... and answer this. Is it just water, yes or no? it's a simple question that you'll be too scared to answer cos if it is then you're a fraud and if it isn't your a liar.
or tell me why i'm wrong in your own words instead of hiding behind links and books and obscure studies like you guys always do.
TO RALPH
absolutly typical proponant answer. He's laid down reams of text there saying you can't dismiss. But not one line that explains how WATER can cure an illness. not one word about how WATER can have any affect what so ever. Not even a hint at how water can 'remember' the good thing but not all the other crap it touches. The reason those places scored low is because most of it just doesn't work.
Homeopaths claim water has magical properties. That is an amazing claim. the burden of proof is on you.
IF ANY OF That were true it would pass clinical trials. It doesn't I know plenty of quantum physicists who can't explain homeopathy but not one who can. Come to think of it, I don't know anyone who can explain it.
I know plenty of people who explain it as snake oil and quackery, though. I have seen some materials on that and quantum physics is way beyond my understanding (or interest for that matter).
Why must there be a scientific explanation for everything? I read Scientific American every month - recently there has been material on "epigenetics" dealing with how DNA is changed from one generation to the next and how these changes can produce disease in the new generation. Hahnemann's basic principles include the passing of disease propensities from one generation to the next. Hahnemann was also the first medical scientist to use double-blind studies of remedy effects in his provings. It is only in the last ten years (with the increase of women medical doctors) that the medical profession has recognised that men are different from women (what a revelation!) in their expressions of disease, such as heart problems, their reactions to medications and treatments, etc.
Hahnemann did all his provings of his remedies on both men and women in the 19th century. A physicist pal of mine declares that water has memory.
An experiment was done on some water, some wore given a lot of negative emotion (swearing, aggression) and the other water was given emotional love and tenderness. Both samples were then frozen solid. The samples that were sworn at froze in an ugly splintered shape and the ones that were loved froze in a beautiful and harmonious shape.
If some water was treated homeopathically, it would remember the treatment it went thru and be efficatious.
It would not matter that there was no sign of the medicine it was treated with, it would remember it and act accordingly.
As to the quantum mathematics of this?
I know nothing, Mr Fawlty. You can find endless articles full of meaningless techno-babble claiming to justify homeopathy. In fact all the evidence based controlled scientific studies, show it to be no better than placebo!
Best description I ever came across of homeopathy was in a medical journal last year. It likened it to throwing a pint of beer into a reservoir and then drinking the water and expecting to get drunk! Yeah, and I can guarantee you that the person knows nothing about quantum physics and is simply using the term because it sounds impressive.
Homeopathy was created in the 19th century and it's only gotten a recent revival due to the "natural health" proponents out there. The problem is, in a double blind test homeopathy worked about as well as a placebo. There is no credible scientific proof that homeopathy works as claimed. if you're so worried about the scientific & credibility of hoemopathy then please read some books on it. Anything that is scientifically studied can be rigged to succeed or fail depending on who is funding the study.
Most medical studies are funded by pharmaceutical companies.
Never is a study accepted for publication in scientific journals now without the approval of the journal advertisers / editors / owners.
Allopathic medicine uses three methods: cutting, burning, and poisons.
Allopathic medicine treats symptoms, and not necessarily root causes of disease.
Poisons can be patented, and therefore a large profit can be made by selling them.
Other legit forms of medicine were based on observation and experience.
There is a 1h:15m:23s Google video done by G. Edward Griffin about the politics and science of cancer medicine. First came dyes, chemicals, explosive munitions, and then pharmaceuticals. I. G. Farben Germany entered into a business marriage with Sr John D. Rockefeller's industrial group. I. G. Farben roughly translates into Cartel.
Google search
"I. G. Farben" Rockefeller
and read some of the articles.
When Sr John D. Rockefeller invested in pharmaceuticals in the late 1800s / early 1900s he looked for a way to improve the economic outlook for his investment. He with the AMA Incorporated (an allopathic medical practitioner's union), and the Andrew Carnegie foundation for education sponsored the 1910 Flexner report. The recommendations were based on a scoring tabulation that was not scientifically based at all, but was based on what the AMA and Sr John D. Rockefeller had wanted from the start. Abraham Flexner scored any medical schools teaching bioelectric medicine, or eastern medicine, or osteopathic medicine, or chiropractic, naturopathy, or homeopathy, or any number of other forms than allopathic medicine with very low marks. Another recommendation was to have all remaining medical schools associated with existing colleges and universities, and that Rockefeller foundation, Carnegie foundation, Ford foundation, Pillsbury foundation, Sloan foundation, Kettering foundation, etc invest monies into colleges and universities who would cooperate with them. The result was a system of education that indoctrinated everyone into believing that only one group of people were in charge of the truth: scientific journals, and that only one group of medical doctors could treat disease: allopaths. The people who owned these journals (media moguls) determined what experiments were publicized and would reject any articles / studies / experimental results that conflicted with the commercial concerns of their owners or their advertisers or their established readership. People like Nikola Tesla were shunned even though he is the one now credited with a huge number of our modern day electrical inventions: AC electricity, AC generators, AC motors, electric transmission lines, line transformers, radio, and radar.
Abraham Flexner, his brother researcher Simon Flexner, and Fred T. Gates formed a triumvirate that sat on all of the boards of directors of the now prestigious universities in exchange for grants from the various tax exempt charitable foundations. All three of these men were employees of Sr John D. Rockefeller. This group skewed all education towards the use of pharmaceutical drugs.
Interestingly, John D. Rockefeller Sr.'s father, William Avery Rockefeller, was a medical quack specializing in cancer treatment, and J.D. Rockefeller Sr. used empiric medical practitioners exclusively, staying clear of allopaths.
Laetrile is a well known cancer controlling drug made from concentrated amygdalin formed from nitrilosides such as apricot seed, apple seeds, wide bladed grasses, millet, bitter almonds and over 1400 other edible foods.
A Google search of
"Dr. Kanematsu Sugiura" laetrile
will reveal a hit from www.laetrile.com.au as the first entry. Reading of this document shows how board members of Memorial Sloan-Kettering had one research group after another run tests on laetrile. After each of 3 or 4 groups internal to MSK found laetrile effective, they got an outside group of dubious reputation to perform the testing and finally got the 'doctored' result that they wanted: laetrile as effective as saline solution for fighting / controlling cancer. Upon announcement of the findings, the MSK official was embarrassed by their chief lab testing Dr. who said that he stuck by his prior findings that laetrile was effective. Even though the fix was in, the MSK scoundrel officials got egg on their faces for trying to lie.
Also see Google video
Hoxsey cancer how healing becomes a crime
View the video from 51m:30s that describes allopathic versus empiric medicine.
Just because there appears no medical journal evidence of a given medical treatment's efficacy does not mean that an article demonstrating it was not submitted to them--the study paper was likely rejected because it would be harmful for business of their advertisers, their readership, or their publishers. Alternatively, the journey for the researcher could have his/her investigation cut off short by never being funded or provided a facility to conduct their investigations.
The only time that any honest studies are listed are when a foreign government lab sponsors the testing and the study was published in South Korea for example, then translated to English.
Google search
A World Without Cancer Story of Vitamin B17 G. Edward Griffin
then choose Amazon books site, then click the search inside this book button, then on the right hand side, slide the book pager control to view chapter 17 - The Rockefeller Group
Or you can download the chapters via ed2k p2p client--search for
G. Ed Griffin vitamin
and select the pdf file and read it using Adobe Acrobat Reader--the result is a 3 chapter excerpt from the full book.
See English wikipedia search for:
Double-slit experiment
This may be the quantum photon flux of the vacuum at work.
A similar effect might be happening in water.
Cold fusion is said to produce elements of atoms not found in the apparatus.
Stanley Meyer water fracturing technology supposedly made use of photons from pulsed LEDs, and pulsed electric fields to perform resonant energy level elevation of the water molecules to permit fracturing to effect lower energy consumption electrolysis. Videos of some replication projects on Google videos exist.
Google video search
brown-gas additional-properties
The above video indicates that radioactive Cobalt-60 can be transformed somehow by the use of Professor Yul Brown's gas into non-radioactive material.
No doubt that energy from the vacuum may be tapped to change matter at low temperatures.
Orgone energy, the JoeCell. What is operating the car's motor?
The fields of investigation are wide open for experimenters. Instead of publishing papers for scientific journals, people are making Google, and You-Tube videos so that their findings are not suppressed.
If harmless, I would not be opposed to trying homeopathic medicine experimentally to see if it indeed elicited a "placebo effect 100% of the time." |
