Personally I think it's placebo at best, quackery at worst. What gets me is the chemists who sell it, they should know better... the (pseudo) science behind it is diametrically opposed to modern chemestry. So why are chemists in on the action? Even Bupa offers cover for it!
Who is for it? What are your reasons? Who is against it? or does not believe in it. Comments please.
How many people have taken homeopathic medicine without even knowing the principals or their science?
Who thinks it's just alike any other over the counter ointments or creams?
P.S. No offence to any believers or even practitioners, I'm just looking for oppinions. Gym - in response to "who cares if chemists sell it? people sell all sorts of stuff chemists arent "in on the action" they are just selling a product". I don't know if I care if they sell it, I have not thought about that long enough to decide. I do think you must, that's absolutly must, believe in something to sell it. I just don't understant how a chemist trained in western medicine can believe in it... it's the opposite of their years spent at uni.
Alivia - they are aloud to take money without scientific study because it's so totally harmless. This leads me onto my next point... it's harmless because of it's dilution. 1:10/400(that's 10 followed by 400 zeros)is the dilution homeopathic flu remedy Oscillococcinum. You may aswell take water...
Old cat lady - I don't quite get your quantum physics referrence? Whilst i have a lot of respect for herbal remedies (after all, modern chemical medicines have a plant origin in the main) I have absolutely no faith in homeopathy.
Here in Germany high street chemists are 'qualified' to produce their own homeopathic tinctures and tonics. It is very medieval and terrifies me.
Since faith is a major element of this so called healing, it has no more effect on me than a sugar pill that I've been told will work.
http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vsten...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/200...
You may call me a cynic, but I believe that those who propound and sell homeopathic remedies are the cynical parties. They take advantage of a lack of comprehensible information and the public's desire to go 'natural'.
In brief and taking the basis of homeopathy to its simplest extreme, if we are stung by a nettle we do not immediately plunge our other hand into a nettle clump to relieve the pain. And if we did we would, by homeopathic standards, be overdosing. The amounts of the supposed active ingredients are so minimal that they are hardly identifiable.
Looking at the thumbs up/down ratings I get a suspicion that the subject matter will attract an uneven demographic. It seems to me that the yay sayers are here in their droves and have systematically rated the naysayers down.
I wonder if we could do a study..... Some vets use homeopathy successfully to treat animals so it can't be placebo. I cured my cat's cystitis with it. Prescribing for homeopathy isn't like prescribing drugs, and different people need different remedies for the same complaint, so unless you consult a homeopathic practitioner who will take the time to ask a lot of questions to find the right remedy for you success is less likely. I find it hard to believe that it can possibly work, but have proved to my own satisfaction that it does. "placebo therapy at best and quackery at worst."[
not my words, but im afriad i have to agree. i have tried homeopathic remedies before that did not work and i never actually believed they would - no placebo effect there due my my lack of faith perhaps?
i dont understand how they are allowed to practive and take peoples money without evidence?
All other areas of medicine are SO critically dependant on scientific studies to be allowed to be used?? Well certainly there is no scientific explaination for homeopathy. I cannot see how it can work. One time I tried taking a homeopathic Rus Tox which is poison ivy. Well I did not have anything wrong with me. I just took it to see what would happen. Within a few hours I had a very faint red rash all over my body. I know this does not prove anything but I am just saying that the rash happened soon after taking it. I think this subject has been discussed far too much-- it's getting boring! (And I am a big fan)
Why don't you look at why the big pharmas are getting away with killing people !
Look into iatrogenic causes of death especially in the US. Throwing all rationalizations for 'how it works' we have to first show that it even works at all. So far I have yet to see any well-designed studies that show an effect. Also, whenever we see an effect in small studies with small sample sizes and poor blinding, we see that effect size diminish to noise level when the experiment is repeated with proper blinding and increased sample size.
If this stuff worked it'd be great, but it just doesn't appear to work. I mean, they'd be curing cancer and science would take notice of something like that. But mostly you hear all this conspiracy rubbish from them.
Homeopathy is most likely quackery, and it is becoming a threat to public health when naturopaths and homeopaths are prescribing WATER to protect against MALARIA! This is criminal!
(Yeah, I hate the argument ad Quantum; anyone who uses that as a mechanism to justify how their particular claim works is full of feces. These people dont' know the first thing about Quantum Mechanics; it is just 'magic' to them.) As a GP who uses homeopathy extensively in my practice - because it's cheap, safe and sometimes works amazingly - I have often wondered if every success I see with homeopathy could be placebo or coincidence. But then I remember the remarkable cures I've experienced myself, and seen in others - even before I knew anything about homeopathy, and I honestly know it's genuine.
Every medicine we use has a placebo effect - including homeopathy. But unlike antidepressants, which we are now told don't work, at least it won't make you suicidal or cause unpleasant withdrawal symptoms.
The problem is that if you buy the stuff over the counter, it probably won't work. Because you need to treat the patient and not the disease. Homeopaths train for 3 or 4 years to achieve the knowledge necessary to treat illness, and even then that's just the start of a long learning process.
There's plenty of information on the Faculty of Homeopathy website: www.medical-acupuncture.co.uk Certainly a lot of nay-sayers here. It has successfully treated my cat with bladder cancer. There is no "placebo" effect with animals (and homeopathy has been used with them almost from its inception almost 200 years ago). If placebo is valid then animals receiving chemotherapy, radiation, etc. would be healed the same as with homeopathy or herbal medicines. I am in no way suggesting that homeopathy cures cancer - neither does any conventional medical protocol. I am a cancer survivor and recently watched the PBS presentation, "The Truth About Cancer". Catch it if you can.
You must look to quantum physics, not chemistry, for the effect of dilution and succussion on the remedies. Einstein proved that our universe is nothing but energy whatever the physical state of the matter. Cat lady (and many others) STILL don't understand:
1) Yes, there is placebo effect in animals. Always has been. Just because YOU don't understand this doesn't mean it isn't there.
2) Yes, conventional medical therapy IS effective for cancer. Some cancers have as high as a 95% cure rate with treatment. Again, you are not aware of the facts.
Homeopathy is based on faulty (19th century) understanding of science. All the anecdotes notwithstanding, it does not exceed the efficacy of placebo. It is unethical nonsense and therefore, quackery. The real question is who would take prescription drugs without even knowing the side effects or how they work.
Homeopathy was science before there was even science. The thing is that drug companies can't make big bucks off of it because the formulas aren't patented or whatever.
Who is it for? anyone who is serious about their health and not wanting to put poisonous drugs into their system.
It isn't quackery or a placebo and I have had many results with it for various things from everything to urinary tract infections, muscle strains, plantar warts, grief, headaches, indigestion and I take zicam and or ocillocosinum at the first sign of the flu and I haven't been sick in years. I have only had a Naturopath as my physician for the last 20 years using homeopathy and herbs. I keep reading followers of allopathic medicine and the reductionist approach talk about healing only being placebo.
These same people that don't like to acknowledge a link between mind and body then tell us "ITS ALL IN THE MIND!"
Reductionist which right off other therapies as Placebo & crap deny that the therapy is what has delivered the result and ask for evidence.
Ok. Can supporters of placebo come up proven physiology of the placebo effect, what triggers it and why it was responsible for the patient getting better with evidence?
Well that is what you are asking altmed practitioners to do. Shouldn't you lead by example and do the same thing? All the significant scientific studies show homeopathy to be no better than placebo. in an online medical journal recently I heard a good summary. It suggested that homeopathy was like throwing a pint of beer in to a reservoir and then hoping to get drunk by drinking the water! Most people who promote homeopathy have never studied chemistry, physics or mathematics and don't realise just how ridiculous the whole premise is. Clinical trials have shown it doesn't work and this is the best article to read to get an idea of just how daft the whole thing is.
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/ho...
crosbie: Who told you that antidepressants don't work? Perhaps you should have read the recent report, which you are no doubt referring to, properly. Even in this report there was strong evidence that antidepressants helped patients with severe clinical depression. "Mild" depression (whatever that is) did not appear to be helped - perhaps it's not a medical condition? It is extremely worrying that unprofessional GPs like you get information on drugs from the tabloids, rather than reading medical journals.
Homeopathy's only effect is placebo - that's why we have double blind trials.
[I doubt crosbie is a GP, as you can tell from her rubbishy Qs and As but I'll leave this here anyway ;-)]
old cat lady: You don't even understand basic physics, so what do you think you know about quantum physics? And of course there's a placebo effect with animals. In fact it's called "observer bias" and there are a million books and articles on the subject. I suggest you read one, before someone takes your dangerous advice and dies as a result.
herbie: cystitis usually clears up without antibiotics, and no doubt you were giving your cat plenty of water as any responsible cat owner would. So what makes you think it was cured by homeopathy? It helped my daughter. She was getting pneumonia every 6 months. her pediatrician sent us to an old classmate. and he was able to help us. My daughter gained 5 lbs in one year. She was 25lb at age 3 1/2 and went to 30lbs. the most she had gained in a year her whole life. She was born premature and was very sick as a newborn and regular meds try to keep her healthy but not until homeopathy did she look and feel healthy. Our doctor moved and I haven't found another one that I trust so you do need to be picky and make sure the Dr. is well trained.my daughter says she liked that Dr. and that medicine worked. spoken by a child There is no doubt whatsovever in my mind that any effect homeopathy has is down to placebo, but don't knock the placebo effect, if it works for you, absolutely great.
If you watch this James Randi lecture on homeopathy, I will be extremely surprised if you don't agree with his findings.
You may know that James Randi offers $1,000,000 to anyone who can prove any paranormal claim, homeopathy falls into this category.
He recently carried out extensive tests in several University Hospitals on the subject, thousands of results were fed into a computer, Randi who took no active part in the tests himself, brought his $1,000,000 bankers order which had been previously authorised and checked by the Universities, to the final computerised results in front of all the professors who had carried out the exhaustive testing.
Randi had no idea what the tests would show, but he looked very confident, rightly so, he still has his check to this day.
As to the chemists who sell it, it is the ultimate con-trick, making 拢32,000,000 in 2004 for selling sugar pills.
I've just read the answers regarding homeopathy on animals
http://www.uksceptics.com/article.php?di...
It does not work, you are falling into the trap that many scientists fall into, testing their own results, not blind or preferably double blind trials.
Vets who use it are using their position of authority to convince their customers, as with human homeopathy, there isn't a shred of evidence for it. No offense taken.
I suggest you read the following book. It will answer your question much better than what has been done so far and it gives you the scientific explanation of why it works.
Title: Homeopathy: Science or Myth?
Author: Bill Gray M.D.
Editor: North Atlantic Books
ISBN: 1-55643-332-8
Good reading!
And also: Bravo professor! That's how one tests the effectiveness of homeopathics. Don't try Carcinosinum though! anti depressants work for some ppl but have horrible side effects as all drugs do.You also have to be healthy and not have so many toxins in your body for homeopathic medicine to work.Many ppl have been cured of cancer using these natural medicines.I even helped cure one of my patients using homeopathic medicine.You just have to get it from the right people. Modern science has a lot of funny biases built into it.
These include;
If you cannot explain how something works, then it does not work.
If a commercial interest does not want something to work, then it does not work.
If a conclusion comes up which challenges the status quo, then it (and it's evidence is selectively ignored).
It's not that well known, but the AMA was originally founded to refute the existence of homeopathy and knock it out of practice. At that point in time, homeopathy was performing dramatically better than conventional medicine, so in order to protect certain economic interests, a massive push was made to expel homeopathy from the United States. That was the status quo set around 100 years ago, and groups like the AMA still are expending massive amounts of resources to try and keep this perception the same.
It's not that well known (look it up if you want) but the word allopath actually was coined to me "doctor who is not a homeopath."
My own experience with homeopathy is that it tends to work, but the effectiveness (ranging from 40-95%) depends on the skill of the homeopath you saw (and by the same token people's first hand testimony's of the quality largely depend on who they saw). I've always been really curious how much can actually be done with homeopathy, but since it's been mostly put into the quack category it probably will never be studied or worked with enough to figure out just how much it can do.
Assuming one wants to be open minded and accept that homeopathy does something, studying the exact mechanism gets much more interesting. (And this is actually what interests me the most about homeopathy).
I think that even the most skeptical parties will agree with the following:
If there is a mechanism to explain why homeopathy works (beyond placebo), then the mechanism goes beyond the current knowledge of science. (and hence things like there no longer being an atom present are irrelevant).
I've looked around on this for a while and while the exact mechanism of action alludes me (although I can say citing quantum physics as one is flat out wrong) I do know the following is true:
Exposing homeopathic remedies to oxygen (which typically oxidizes and changes most chemically based substances) has no effect on the potency/efficacy of homeopathic remedies.
Exposing homeopathic remedies to electromagnetic fields or magnetic fields (which has no effect on chemically based medicines) ruins their efficacy.
This has led me to assume that whatever mechanism homeopathy is based on is not chemically based. Since our current science has almost no ability to comprehend substances in any other way, it leads to it being impossible to have a dialog on the subject.
My own belief is that the homeopathic process causes water structure to change in a certain way, which then causes that to also occur within the body and through doing so with the body somehow remove the disease state. As you'd guess, this model is somewhat hard to defend or prove, especially given how many resources have been devoted to the question. However, if something like this is true, then it should make it clear how misframed the entire debate has been.
Beyond that, I've discussed the homeopathic issue with quite a lot of scientists and doctors. Most of them choose to completely ignore or think about the fact that homeopathic remedies tend to only be affected by magnetic interference. I've also seen pro homeopathic studies which were carried out then ridiculed and ignored.
At the end of the day, it's fairly impossible to know if anything really is true or not (especially given the conflicting motivations of people who are "experts on truth"). When it's really difficult to get a clear answer from the available information, I just test things first hand for myself to see if they seem to work, and then ignore most of the crap people babble on about the subject.
I've tried homeopathic remedies, they seem to work. I rarely get sick so I don't need them very often, but they've been another useful tool to have access to for me and my friends.
If people want to deny themselves a useful resource and use an inferior alternative because of their beliefs that's fine with me. I just don't think it's very fair to deny other people access to something helpful. Then again it's something that's been happening since the dawn of time!
Truthfully though, my greatest interest with homeopathy is exactly why it works, and working with questions like that is what makes science fun. Homeopathy does not work. And people seem to be "cured" simply because after a while most people get better anyways (for the acute afflictions mostly). And sometimes they are advised to change their diet, exercise, and drink more water, etc. These help most situations!
Homeopathy is founded on some really bizarre and farfetched ideas! That extremely diluted substances can produce a positive (if any!) effect on any illness! And that a dose of something that may have caused or that would contribute to the condition could cure it! Example: for insomnia the homeopathic sleep aid tablets contain a minute dose of caffiene!
It is obvious that the supporters of homeopathy are biased, misguided, and easily swayed by the placebo affect. They may as well go to a religious healer, because it is about as ridiculous and probable to work.
I haven't ever taken homeopathic remedies because I have had success with proven, clinically tested drugs. I haven't ever needed to seek alternatives to these. I also believe in some herbal and natural remedies because they are the basis of many modern drugs today and they have been proven to work repeatedly by a process that makes sense and is reliable.
Psych drugs are one thing that I am not sure about. I think they should be taken as a last resort and if they are absolutely necessary for one's personal safety or to keep others nearby safe. And I also think that antibiotics should be used with greater caution and avoided if possible, because they can cause imbalances that last a long time after completion of treatment and the overuse of antibiotics is a factor that feeds drug-resistant superbacteria.
Modern medicine may not always work, but it is way more likely to help than homeopathy. And if you have a good doctor he/she will find what you need to be well, by running tests and using the process of elimination to find what could work for you. Doctors aren't gods, they make mistakes too. even if it is a placebo, who cares if it works for some people? um, who cares if chemists sell it? people sell all sorts of stuff chemists arent "in on the action" they are just selling a product, its up to you to buy it or not. YOU DONT HAVE TO BELIEVE IN A PRODUCT YOU SELL! what kind of marketing crap is that?? YOU SELL SOMETHING TO MAKE MONEY!! be serious, you have to believe in what you sell, in what idealised world does that exist in you SELL WHAT THERE IS DEMAND FOR, not whether you believe in something, you dont give a crap if it works, you are selling it for money! what about all those muslims in off licenses selling ALCOHOL, do they BELIEVE in alcohol? NO, it SELLS!
and anyway, the placebo effect works so if you have a placebo you can sell it.
Bupa is private insurance, they charge a lot for people to be treated for anything and with anything, if you end up in a private hospital you can have smoked salmon everyday if you want (been in one) surely thats not essential treatment either? there is usually a treatment on all "health food" nutrients etc that state its not scientifically proven, they buyer can buy what s/he wants. Homeopathy is expensive water.
The idea behind homeopathy (that the body can be strongly affected by very diluted chemicals) makes sense, but the typical practice of it (where the chemicals are diluted until there is nothing left but water) does not. |
